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Ideas for a new CC format, wanted!

#1 User is offline   Adak 

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:44 PM

Greetings All!

I'm looking for ideas to change the Chimp Challenge, into a cooperative teams race or effort, of some kind, instead of a team vs. team format. The main reason is that I see no way to make the race "fair", or even close to it, when we have teams whose folders are earning millions of points per day.
(Brilong for instance, is now earning over 9 million points per day!)

We did not have time to make all the changes needed before the last CC, but we do have time now, if we get working on it.

I'd like to do some brainstorming with you clever guys (and other teams as well) for ideas, and see which of them have a good vibe to them. No idea is a bad one! The more we have to consider, the more likely we can find a good idea for the next race.

Any idea's? What would you like to see in a cooperative multi-team effort?

I know, you'd probably like to kick their asses with us again next year, and bite off the heads of the other teams, with a furious Raptor attack, but something more mellow, would be perhaps in order?

:)

Thanks guys. Still climbing up the team ranks, I see!
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#2 User is offline   dostov 

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:58 PM

View PostAdak, on 10 October 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Still climbing up the team ranks, I see!


Yep. Mowing down some more teams.... too bad for them they're in front of us. :whistling:


Regarding your request for ideas: What do you mean by co-op team effort? Are you considering mixing teams, exchanging players, etc....?
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#3 User is offline   equinox 

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:08 PM

nice to see you Adak, we definitely are interested in participating again. it would be nice to see the CC without so much controversy and negativity so some thought is needed for the next one. good to see it started sooner vs later this time. we will put our collective heads together and see what ideas we can throw your way. kinda reminds me of Forum Wars competitions that we had. ohhh now I need to look at past forum wars and see what pops out at me for ideas. thoughts Dostov and Cvsi3. I now there is still some major computing power still lurking here also so maybe Trp members can chime in. thanks Adak for thinking of us , we are small but we try. I think we may, I think we might reach 100 million by new years night.

:wtf:/>
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#4 User is offline   Adak 

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:53 PM

View Postdostov, on 10 October 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

Yep. Mowing down some more teams.... too bad for them they're in front of us. :whistling:/>


Regarding your request for ideas: What do you mean by co-op team effort? Are you considering mixing teams, exchanging players, etc....?


When we race, team vs. team, it's become obvious that the team that recruits more, will usually win. Although my team was one of the founding teams of the CC race, we didn't emphasize recruiting - and we won almost never - until I got involved more. ;) Recruiting makes a LOT of difference, but now that "difference" has gotten much more exaggerated. Brilong for instance, is pulling in over 9 MILLION ppd!

If we recruited Brilong (and he did join us last year with some (not nearly THAT much), folding power), and several other small and big folders, then other teams just would have no chance. If on the other hand, I do no recruiting/inviting at all, then others will do it, and we'll (probably) not ever win the race.

Last year, Xavier (EVGA CC Captain), suggested a cooperative team effort/race. I know nothing about how that would work, so I'm looking for idea's.

Please explain how any such race or event, might work.

Weather is getting cooler. I'm guessing you'll have no trouble getting to your New Year's Day goal.
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#5 User is offline   dostov 

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:20 PM

I don't know, Adak. It can't really be everybody folding together towards a single goal, because what drives something like the CC is the spirit of competition, the will to try and beat somebody else/some other team. I would think something like one of the competition we used to have here at TRP were teams get picked, one player at a time, but then that would be almost impossible because of the sheer number of players to pick.

The size of CC makes it pretty hard to organize and, what seems to be a problem, to make fair for everybody. There's really no losers when we all fold for finding a cure, but there will always be people that think it is unfair they have "lost", for one reason or another.
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#6 User is offline   Adak 

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:30 PM

Yes, there has to be a competitive side to the race, as well. I tried to explore this with EVGA - tried to set up the CC with one category for straight, no handicap racing - and get this - all they want to do is shoot flak at me. Unbelievable really.

Now they are talking not racing at all - I guess because we won't lie down and let them walk all over us - WAAAAA! Good grief!

I'm not done taking in new idea's for the CC, but I'm not sure what can be improved or changed, if the other CC Captains are like EVGA's Captain.

Thanks for your reply. Nice to just vent sometimes.
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#7 User is offline   dostov 

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:52 AM

Let them not compete, then. Who cares? If we need more teams, TRP can form a team of its own. We don't care losing badly. :hysterical:
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#8 User is offline   pcmaster00 

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:32 AM

Greetings TRP team from your friends over at Folding@EVGA.

I would like to drop in a quick line to state for the record that team EVGA is not opposed to working out a fair platform for CC 2014. Unfortunately there is some bad blood between Adak and some of our members that blew up already this year.

Team EVGA does want to participate, but we simply object the format that Adak keeps pushing. We feel that team captains need to be selected and conversations begin about a format. Pushing a specific agenda is too forward for our tastes. EVGA's captain, Xavier Zepherious, is more than willing to negotiate a platform for CC. I will be assisting him as his co-captain, but the reigns are his.

I would like to make it clear, Team EVGA is opposed to private team captain negotiations, but we are not going to require them to be public. Our main goal is to see a good, fair and fun CC and to see F@H grow.

I invite you all to read through the discussions on the EVGA forums that have transpired already as well as those on the MPC forums and come to your own conclusions.
http://forums.evga.c....aspx?m=2037057
http://www.maximumpc...p?f=32&t=241926

I will be continuing outreach to other teams and will be available for further comment here and discussions any way that they can be done.
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#9 User is offline   caintry_boy 

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:39 AM

So inquiring minds want to know pcmaster00, what "fair platform" are you all thinking of for the CC? I for one am having trouble coming up with ideas to make it more fair...







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#10 User is offline   terry1966 

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:22 PM

it's always just been a simple race, first team to x points wins, and i don't see how that can change, kudos go to the team that can provide the most folding power however they get it.

personally i'd just stick to a 2 team format and any other teams/forums that wish to take part can choose which team they want to fold for out of the 2, or take submissions for forums that want to take part then put them in a hat and make a draw 1st out goes on x team 2nd out goes on y team 3rd out goes on x team and so on until the hat is empty.

x and y teams should probably be headed by the originating forum teams, if i remember correctly there were only 2 that started the chimp challenge. with any other forums being added by luck of the draw or just individual choice on who they want to support each year.

individual players can choose whatever team x or y they want to fold for.

remember it's all for fun so there really isn't a need so make it more serious, complicated, or fairer than that.

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#11 User is offline   equinox 

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

I agree with terry, simple formula that allows people to participate.
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#12 User is offline   pcmaster00 

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:57 PM

View Postcaintry_boy, on 21 October 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

So inquiring minds want to know pcmaster00, what "fair platform" are you all thinking of for the CC? I for one am having trouble coming up with ideas to make it more fair...


Sorry I didn't respond earlier caintry_boy. Didn't notice the reply. Gotta get use to how everyone's forums work as I get out there.

What is a "fair platform"... Frankly a good question. I really don't have an answer for you. Helping to generate an answer to that question is why I am here.



View Postterry1966, on 21 October 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

it's always just been a simple race, first team to x points wins, and i don't see how that can change, kudos go to the team that can provide the most folding power however they get it.

personally i'd just stick to a 2 team format and any other teams/forums that wish to take part can choose which team they want to fold for out of the 2, or take submissions for forums that want to take part then put them in a hat and make a draw 1st out goes on x team 2nd out goes on y team 3rd out goes on x team and so on until the hat is empty.

x and y teams should probably be headed by the originating forum teams, if i remember correctly there were only 2 that started the chimp challenge. with any other forums being added by luck of the draw or just individual choice on who they want to support each year.

individual players can choose whatever team x or y they want to fold for.

remember it's all for fun so there really isn't a need so make it more serious, complicated, or fairer than that.

:crazy:/>/>/>

View Postequinox, on 21 October 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

I agree with terry, simple formula that allows people to participate.


Personally guys, I am with you. I would love to see it be a simply formula that promotes the fun that we are supposed to be having with CC. It has become a very dramatic event over the last couple years with lots of fighting over rules and such.

@terry
I like your idea of making it a 2 team system where the teams are randomized. If we can get H back into CC, this would a very good idea because then we can specifically break up the 2 heavy hitters into 2 separate teams and all the other teams that want to race can join the points total for EVGA and H respectively. If this were to be done, I would suggest that we continue to go off the whole teams points and not go back to specific folding names. Just take all the points from each individual team and lump them together in a CC team.

It winds up being like back on the school yard, you have 2 kids that are good players as captains and the teams get formed off everyone else. Now the difference is that back on the school yard we were picking our teams, but we would make this randomized.
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#13 User is offline   equinox 

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

seems like a simple layout. the 2 or 3 largest teams form the core of each team then layer in all other partipating forums using there own team number and players. everyone retains there own points so everyone is happy. form your teams at day-1 and base the teams off of total points. you should be able to start out fairly even. which ever team recruits the best should in theory win it. might even give us an opurtunity to pick up some more people folding around here. simple layout to do and it could give some smaller forums a chance to jump in. preplanning is essential though to have all participating forums ackowledged at day-1 to form up.
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#14 User is offline   caintry_boy 

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:58 PM

I think terry1966 and Equinox are on the right track here, that sounds to me like it would be about as fair as anything. ;)
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#15 User is offline   terry1966 

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:43 PM

my post over at pcpitstop after seeing this years stats.

http://forums.pcpits...d/#entry1777428

you evga boys certainly have plenty of folding power. :kneel:/>

so thought lets make it a 2 horse race where we all gang up on you and see if we can beat you in a straight fight to 500 million or whatever next year. :duel:/>

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#16 User is offline   terry1966 

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

just read the earlier posted link to evga's discussion, and i think to much is being made about "ringers" or "the contest is about bring new people into folding" neither of which really matters, the new folders will come or go with or without cc and "ringers" have always been something that can't be guarded against so just accept the fact it's going to happen.

in my honest opinion if i remember correctly the cc was started out as just a friendly straight race between the 2 top teams to reach x amount of points period, didn't matter where they got the extra folding power from during the race it was just a question of trying to be first past the post, with some friendly banter and name calling along the way.

so why not go back to that but seeing how h dropped out why not make it evga against the world and see who ends out on top in a straight race. ok evga will probably have to find a "ringer" or 2 from somewhere :hysterical: if they wanted to win judging by this years total folding points for each team that took part, but that would be all part of what makes things interesting.

or like someone said somewhere get all the teams organised the week before see what their ppd has been over last month then add 1 or 2 teams to evga so the ppd balances out as fair as possible then let the race begin. no need to change anyone's names or teams just link them under 2 cc names.

it doesn't matter who wins or by how much or how they achieved it at the end of the day after that the only thing that counts is everyone did their best to win and the result is whatever it is all in the name of folding and FUN!!! :hysterical:

and maybe the smaller forums/teams gain some much needed extra publicity from taking part in what is i would think a high internet traffic/publicity (brain dead and can't think of the right word) event that may bring in new folders to their teams afterwards.

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#17 User is offline   equinox 

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:14 PM

agree on all counts terry.
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#18 User is offline   dostov 

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:28 PM

***I moved all new posts in this thread as it relates to the new format for CC, not Operation Primate.

I like the idea of a 2 teams race, personally. In fact I don't really care what the format is, whichever team I'm on will win. LOL
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#19 User is offline   Adak 

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:09 AM

It's amazing reading some of EVGA's posts. They just bluntly say they're the biggest team, they make the most points, so they should win! All done with a straight face, no less! The last two years they were cheated - of course - or they would have won the CC.

They're OK with the idea of splitting up the teams to compete with them in a no-handicap race, as long as "ringers" are allowed. But that's the very thing they were complaining about with our race last year, so they don't call non-folders who start folding during the CC for them, "ringers". They're EVGA folders, getting back into folding, don't you know. And they might fold millions of points per day, so they can't be limited to a measly 1 million ppd - oh no!

The way they want to split up the teams gives them a built in advantage of between 5 and 50 million points per day. They're quite OK with that, and think that we should be, as well. When pigs fly, that might happen.

Thanks a lot for all your ideas for the CC, and welcome to the rare team air of the 200's!

Right now, there is no consensus on the CC format, but hopefully that will change.
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#20 User is offline   dostov 

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:02 AM

Adak,

Keep us posted on developments. We're always ready to help, joining a team or another for a fair race. Although I'd say that, for my part, if there's still $h!t hitting the fan full speed in 6 months, I'll probably just "stay home" with my folding or form my own team with my dog Chuck.

Cheers! :beerchug:
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